Balance Mod - Second Iteration

Revilo
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4 May 2014 - 11:14 CEST
@Rantology: are you actually suggesting that auto picking up a welder is a bigger change than, say, changing how aliens upgrade anything/changing how much biomass and tres is needed?

With this mod, we've basically made the jump from pub to comp massive. If someone can learn all the tech/lifeform changes, I think they'll manage fine with auto picking stuff up.
Neoken
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4 May 2014 - 12:00 CEST
+1 for full measure

You could put all of the QoL fixes in the beginning of the changelog, so people who read it for the first time will be impresssed before they even get to the balance changes. ^^

rantology
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4 May 2014 - 16:23 CEST
No I'm not suggesting that Revilo, I am just saying it will be 1 more change on top of a pile of already sizable changes- and an optional/QoL change that does not not aim to address a specific gameplay issue at that (essentially a "fluff" change).

Like I said, I'm not against making such a change at all. I would enjoy having that kind of thing in the mod. I'm just playing devil's advocate in this case to see if there is any other views on the subject... but it looks like most people here would also support QoL additions to the mod... so we'll see what we can do!

Are there any other suggestions or ideas for QoL gameplay changes?
Mendasp
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4 May 2014 - 16:35 CEST
I can look into making the player autopickup anything for empty weapon slots (which would qualify for everything king yo posted), this would be for NS2+, of course. It also makes sense for vanilla...

Edit: I still have to work out some minor stuff but this is what I made quickly:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=_dsAz3gp3eI
B1
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4 May 2014 - 17:23 CEST
That's f-awesome Mendasp.
rantology
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4 May 2014 - 17:28 CEST
I don't suppose there's a way to allow you to pick your skulk upgrades while in the spawn queue as well? that's one other QoL change I've wanted for a long time :P
RisingSun
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4 May 2014 - 17:59 CEST
Any chance of separating the drop weapon button and pickup button?

+use always worked well as a +pickup.

RisingSun
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4 May 2014 - 17:59 CEST
.

Mendasp
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4 May 2014 - 18:27 CEST
It's done, I'll publish this tomorrow as to not ruin officials today.

http://youtu.be/FAGhZ-puUks

It works the following way: If the slot is empty, it picks up the weapon. If the weapon you pick up belongs in slot 1, it autoselects on pickup, otherwise it doesn't switch.
Cognito
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4 May 2014 - 18:36 CEST
Veering slightly off topic but did the ARC fix end up in the comp balance mod or ns2+? Having it (and similar) in ns2+ would really help my crusade to get ns2+ on some pub servers.
Mendasp
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4 May 2014 - 18:37 CEST
That ARC bug was specific to the compmod, so the fix is in compmod...
Cognito
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4 May 2014 - 19:55 CEST
Shame ;p. Sorry I missed that detail.
king_yo
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4 May 2014 - 20:13 CEST
Very nice mendasp. If you have a slotX item (let's say welder), and the same item under your feet, if you throw yours, wich one do you pick?
Mega
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5 May 2014 - 14:55 CEST
good idea kingyo


can you change it to:
automatical refreshing welders if you walk over it (in case youa llready have a welder otherwise automatical pickup)

same for mines if these mines are equal or more then your mines. (if that dosnt work dont put the mine thing in)
Mendasp
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5 May 2014 - 15:36 CEST

king_yo says

Very nice mendasp. If you have a slotX item (let's say welder), and the same item under your feet, if you throw yours, wich one do you pick?



The pickup behavior is exactly the same, I just added an autopickup one.
king_yo
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5 May 2014 - 18:52 CEST
Ok but this case does not happen in vanilla, because you can't pick up a welder if you already have one, hence my question.

After testing, it basically picks up the one closest to you, if both are pickable. Best way to be sure is to throw your current welder while looking up, so it picks up the other one before the one you threw hit the ground and becomes pickable.
king_yo
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5 May 2014 - 20:38 CEST
Btw can't you throw the ammo with the gun?
Leap
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5 May 2014 - 23:11 CEST
I'm a little confused at the Babbler nerf in the latest patch - it seems to counteract what this graph http://imgur.com/9yn6PfJ is saying 'Tech that is often unused for alien: Babblers'

Who is using babblers so much that they need to be nerfed so hard? I haven't played a competitive game in the last 2 months where babblers have been used once. Is this a prem/div1 thing?
rantology
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6 May 2014 - 00:18 CEST

Leap says

I'm a little confused at the Babbler nerf in the latest patch - it seems to counteract what this graph http://imgur.com/9yn6PfJ is saying 'Tech that is often unused for alien: Babblers'

Who is using babblers so much that they need to be nerfed so hard? I haven't played a competitive game in the last 2 months where babblers have been used once. Is this a prem/div1 thing?




It's a stopgap - babblers were tripple nerfed in the last update to ensure they would no longer cause the frustrating gameplay that some believed was happening. Now we need to really look at them and see where we think they will best fit.

For instance, in their current weaker state I think they could be unlocked as a base gorge ability (no research required) - since they are more or less a minor support ability now and not really worthy of a tres research any longer.

To be clear, I believe the biggest point of controversy about them previously was teams going crag hive off the bat, and using carpace-babbler skulks in the early game to great effect (with gorge/muccous healing on the babblers which may have been a little broken in some cases).
Tico
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6 May 2014 - 00:54 CEST
Just realized something.

Instead of raising the cost of whips, crags, shifts, etc. (pve). In terms of how much they cost in TRES, why the hell haven't we just raised the population count on them, therefore limiting how many you have. Population is already a feature in the game. So you really only have to change a few numbers.

I for one have no idea what would be the best numbers for this set up, but its part of the game and I don't think anyone has mentioned just lowering it to fix the issue of pve.
Mendasp
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6 May 2014 - 02:02 CEST

king_yo says

Btw can't you throw the ammo with the gun?



Nope, the ammo drops don't use "normal" physics.
Golden
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6 May 2014 - 02:25 CEST

Tico says

Just realized something.

Instead of raising the cost of whips, crags, shifts, etc. (pve). In terms of how much they cost in TRES, why the hell haven't we just raised the population count on them, therefore limiting how many you have. Population is already a feature in the game. So you really only have to change a few numbers.

I for one have no idea what would be the best numbers for this set up, but its part of the game and I don't think anyone has mentioned just lowering it to fix the issue of pve.




This doesn't solve the issue. A population cap only limits PvE in extreme cases. People are having problems with 2 whips, a crag, and a shade all in the same location. Population caps wouldn't have any impact.
Wlf
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6 May 2014 - 15:00 CEST

Golden says


Tico says

Just realized something.

Instead of raising the cost of whips, crags, shifts, etc. (pve). In terms of how much they cost in TRES, why the hell haven't we just raised the population count on them, therefore limiting how many you have. Population is already a feature in the game. So you really only have to change a few numbers.

I for one have no idea what would be the best numbers for this set up, but its part of the game and I don't think anyone has mentioned just lowering it to fix the issue of pve.




This doesn't solve the issue. A population cap only limits PvE in extreme cases. People are having problems with 2 whips, a crag, and a shade all in the same location. Population caps wouldn't have any impact.




What you could do is maybe make the PVE structure work like the turrets. Introducing a cap in term of "pop" amount to be placed in each room.

For example you cant put more than X population in reactor core in summit. I dont know if its doable in term of coding, but that could be an answer to adress that issue.
snb
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6 May 2014 - 19:31 CEST

Wlf says

What you could do is maybe make the PVE structure work like the turrets. Introducing a cap in term of "pop" amount to be placed in each room.

For example you cant put more than X population in reactor core in summit. I dont know if its doable in term of coding, but that could be an answer to adress that issue.



Seems hardly possible as long as structures are mobile.
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8 May 2014 - 03:00 CEST
I think with the newest proposed changes it would be better to fit map balancing into the current game balance than to fit game balancing onto the maps. I would think that making sure that balancing the game would be harder if you were to balance for every map versus making sure each map is fair it is own way.
I would also think it would be more exciting to have map balancing since you can make certain strategies more powerful and weaker depending on the map versus just having the game play out the same, optimal way on each and every map.
Scatter
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8 May 2014 - 04:34 CEST
And who will do all this map modification?
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