Open Training Night?! - Need some Pro's

Luftwaffel
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27 February 2017 - 19:45 EST
#1
Hello everyone,
since the NCT, there have been many new competitive players or players who want to get into competitive. From the 8bit community alone we have approximately 10-20 new people. I think it would be a great idea to make an open training night (like Golden and Schu did a while back). Teaching people about competitive tactics, positioning etc. in general and then perhaps splitting it up into different servers for some in depth info on different lifeforms.

We obviously need some experienced players to pull this off, so if you feel like helping to get some fresh blood into the NSL, we'd greatly appreciate it.

Also if you are interested to join to learn, leave a comment as well :)

-Luftwaffel
NateDogg
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28 February 2017 - 01:35 EST
#2
I'd be all over this. I want to get into competitive but going from pub to gathers is kind of like pouring acid into my eye sockets. There needs to be a healthy progression. How do I go from village idiot to fearsome competitor?
Rammler
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28 February 2017 - 06:04 EST
#3
There is no other way than the hard way. we all were beginner once and got rekt in gathers. it is part of the progression. u need to lose and learn first before u can win.
the best way to learn is playing a season. u need more 6v6 experience to get a feel for it. try some pcws against better teams.

i could give u some tipps in a testsession if u want. but like tane said once: if u want to learn, learn from the best. and that are more the people from div1 and not me.
NateDogg
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28 February 2017 - 06:48 EST
#4
There's a few interesting points to address here.....

Rammler says
There is no other way than the hard way. we all were beginner once and got rekt in gathers.


The last time I played gathers was on Sunday and it was a miserable experience. I'm ok with losing alot. But the 'regulars' are not ok with that. They were all arguing with eachother because there were too many new players and eventually everyone just left. One guy raged out and bitterly complained openly that he wished crappy players wouldn't even play NS2. All I gained is that people who play gathers are not interested in newcomers. There is no value in that.

Rammler says
the best way to learn is playing a season. u need more 6v6 experience to get a feel for it.


The good news is, I am on a team. The bad news is, we currently don't hear much from our manager so I'm not sure how active we're going to be. He's the only one with legit competitive experience.

Rammler says
try some pcws against better teams.


I'll do it just as soon as I find out what a 'pcw' is.

Rammler says
i could give u some tipps in a testsession if u want. but like tane said once: if u want to learn, learn from the best. and that are more the people from div1 and not me.


I'll learn from anyone who has competitive experience.
Rammler
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28 February 2017 - 07:21 EST
#5
a pcw is a personal clan war. so unofficial 6vs6.

the problem why so many comp player are frustraded about beginners is that a lot of beginners sign up here with less than 50 hours.
would u sign up for the cs go comp league with 45 hours in the game? probably not. some people should at least get some hours in the pub game and learn the basics before signin up for such a high level.
u should know the basics like how to play a lifeform, what weapons to buy, etc.

but last gathers too many rookies did not know how to play any lifeform or kept buying flame throwers....

we are very open for new faces and beginners, but they should not be completly new to the game.

but all in all: some people are also very salty when they lose. especially because of mistakes from some new player. i get easily angry too. its nothin personal then. rule number 1 in the ensl: dont take anythin personal
NateDogg
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28 February 2017 - 08:05 EST
#6
Rammler says
a pcw is a personal clan war. so unofficial 6vs6.

I think this is the best way to learn. I need to find an active team and do pcws on a daily basis for a while. That would be awesome.

Rammler says
dont take anythin personal

Done. It was still unfun, unproductive and waste of everyone's time(including my own).

All sins are forgiven. I still think gathers are a bad place to learn. Of course, nobody wants me on their team until I can 'prove' that I'm good enough. But I'm not going to be good enough until I get legit team training. So there's a bit of circular logic here. I could always spend the next 200+ hours dying on gathers and pissing everyone off until it 'clicks' but that's no way to learn. Learning should be fun.

Hence, what Luftwaffel is proposing is very enticing. So hopefully he'll message me with a proposition to join up with these training sessions? And then if we get enough newbies to form lil baby mini teams, we can have mini pcw runs over and over until we're less homo and THEN we can contribute to gathers and everyone will be happy.

Small side note, on pub servers I'm labeled as rookie. But rookie servers are lame and I'm not learning anything there. So I try to join a non rookie server but I automatically get kicked because I'm labeled rookie. I have 71 hours recorded on steam + commander badge + 60% achievements so I'm not sure what else I'm suppose to do to play on a 'real' pub. Again, circular logic. It's like we're set up to fail. Good game! Broken system.....
Tyr
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28 February 2017 - 08:39 EST
#7
Getting better is a combination of playing scrims/pcws, gathers and trying to get better people come teach you. What Rammler says used to be true, but back then we had gathers were there were maybe one newbie per team, and said newbies usually had 1k+ hours before they joined which smoothened out the experience a lot. Since the past year since S9 there has been an increase in lower skill newbies and the disappearance of the high skill players, which makes it a very rough transition.

It does not mean it doesn't work, but you need the necessary basic skillset of at least public to comprehend a lot of what is being communicated in a gather. In a way, you can see it as a game of football/soccer where usually you have a game where one player can never run, only walk. But at least that person can kick the ball forward and pass it along to teammates, thus making him contribute a little bit until he learns to run. Lately that player has been a cripple in a wheelchair, and there has been 3-4 of them on each team. People are not angry with the new people, but they can get frustrated which is a naturally occuring phenomenone when the lowest requirement of field performance is not met.

To set up a scrim you need very little knowledge, all you need is to talk to your team and make sure you got 6 players, check the contest list of available teams. Add them on steam and then whisper and say "Hey, you guys want to scrim us at 'insert date and time'. THen you discuss a little, and hopefully you got a scrim. Play a few maps/rounds and ask for feedback. Altertatively you can also advertise in the shoutbox.
As for the newbie kicking, there are several communities in the game still alive. Most of them are very lowskill rookiefriendly, perhaps you should take note of where these kickings happen?

NA server communities - DMD, IBIS, TA. All got easy to access admins that promote rookieculture.
ËU server communities - Thirty Onos, 8BIT, Gorge same as above

Then there are a few more random servers etc.

So in short, to improve. Play scrims/pcws and ask for feedback. Play gathers(the participants change and does not include the same players every day/time). Organize these kinds of events, and/or ask specific players to contribute with knowledge and help. Lastly, play more public and get to know the maps/the game over all.
Luftwaffel
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28 February 2017 - 09:43 EST
#8
NateDogg says
So I try to join a non rookie server but I automatically get kicked because I'm labeled rookie. I have 71 hours recorded on steam + commander badge + 60% achievements so I'm not sure what else I'm suppose to do to play on a 'real' pub. Again, circular logic. It's like we're set up to fail. Good game! Broken system.....


I'm an admin on the 8bit servers. We are truly rookie friendly, when you don't know something, we'll tell you instead of yelling at you. So if you wanna have some good pub experience, join us. And don't shy away from using the microphone and asking questions.

you can also add me on steam http://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561198006719310
my team consists of Newcomers as well (except me, but my experience is very limited). so if you wanna get a PCW going, feel free to message me.
Hobbeson
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28 February 2017 - 10:14 EST
#9
I'm hardly a pro, but happy to offer very basic lerk training to anyone interested.
Rammler
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28 February 2017 - 10:36 EST
#10
Hobbeson says
I'm hardly a pro, but happy to offer very basic lerk training to anyone interested.


nice mate. i could also join and tell people about fade and stuff.
NateDogg
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1 March 2017 - 01:31 EST
#11
Tyr says

As for the newbie kicking, there are several communities in the game still alive. Most of them are very lowskill rookiefriendly, perhaps you should take note of where these kickings happen?

NA server communities - DMD, IBIS, TA. All got easy to access admins that promote rookieculture.
ËU server communities - Thirty Onos, 8BIT, Gorge same as above

Then there are a few more random servers etc.

Alot of confusing insider terminology here so let's start at the top....

1. When you say 'newbie kicking' I presume you're referring to pcws that are populated and played by newbies and moderated by veterans? Alternatively you could be referring to the practice of lining newbies up and kicking the shit out of them, but that only happens in gathers(hah!!)
2. When you say 'server communities' I presume you're referring to teams? I went onto the team page and I couldn't find any of the teams you referenced except 8bit. There are 3 different teams called 'gorge' but they all had less than 5 members each.
3. In summation, when I am able to track down these 'server communities/teams' I contact the admins of those respective teams and request to join to participate in 'newbie kickings'? Am I getting this right so far?
4. Action step, how do I contact the admins of such server communities/teams if I couldn't find any of them on the teams page?(except 8 bit of course) Suggestions?
Home
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1 March 2017 - 02:09 EST
#12
When you click on the server browser in the NS2 ingame menu you can see the list of avaiable servers you can play on. Every Server has Admins who moderate it and every server has regulars who play often on that specific server, so the people get known to each other and a Server community forms. It has nothing to do with teams or competitive play.

So what you should do is: start the game, open up the server browser and join the servers Tyr mentioned to have a rookie friendly experience.

And PCWs cannot be "populated". A PCW is a practice clan war, it is when a 6v6 match is played between two teams.
Tyr
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1 March 2017 - 06:21 EST
#13
At this point I am not sure if you are trolling or if you are actually this dumb, the latter seem more probable.

To the rest of you, I wish good luck and hopefully that admins can clear up the thread a bit from whatever the fuck is going on up there.
BauerJankins
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1 March 2017 - 06:48 EST
#14
Rofl the retardation this thread has derailed to
Almost makes you think someone is trolling
@Natedog you're claiming that your *transition from pub to comp* is tough for you, but that's a straight up lie. You have literally 70 hours in the game and (it seems) like no experience in other shooters. You're going from 'completely new player to ns' to 'imma try comp for whatever reason'.Of course you're gonna get shredded in an ORGANIZED game, you hardly even know what this game has to offer in vanilla. Of course it's gonna be very frustrating to comp players when they have a person on the team who doesn't know what to do because they're new to comp, but most people are willing to help. HOWEVER, if you LITERALLY do not know the game, don't know how to play a lifeform, dont know how to kill a skulk etc etc, its just a bad experience for you AND for the others. You should really listen to the people in this thread and go play PUBLIC a bit before you try gathers again.
Most people who joined the esnl had close to 1000 hours in the game before they wanted to make the transition to organized, higher level games. I think i had something like 800-1000 when i joined. (Of course there are also exceptions for very fast learners who would only need like 200 hours)
The comp community is always happy to have newcomers, but people who dont know the game they want to play are counterproductive for the community, at least thats my own opinion. Some people are going to say now "but let's accept everyone because we're open to people of all kinds (and we need members)" - but isn't a COMP community there to get higher skilled games going?
http://i.imgur.com/hr1ud2u.png
Tyr
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1 March 2017 - 07:01 EST
#15
BauerJankins says

Almost

lebra
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1 March 2017 - 07:17 EST
#16
BauerJankins says
Rofl the retardation this thread has derailed to
Almost makes you think someone is trolling
@Natedog you're claiming that your *transition from pub to comp* is tough for you, but that's a straight up lie. You have literally 70 hours in the game and (it seems) like no experience in other shooters. You're going from 'completely new player to ns' to 'imma try comp for whatever reason'.Of course you're gonna get shredded in an ORGANIZED game, you hardly even know what this game has to offer in vanilla. Of course it's gonna be very frustrating to comp players when they have a person on the team who doesn't know what to do because they're new to comp, but most people are willing to help. HOWEVER, if you LITERALLY do not know the game, don't know how to play a lifeform, dont know how to kill a skulk etc etc, its just a bad experience for you AND for the others. You should really listen to the people in this thread and go play PUBLIC a bit before you try gathers again.
Most people who joined the esnl had close to 1000 hours in the game before they wanted to make the transition to organized, higher level games. I think i had something like 800-1000 when i joined. (Of course there are also exceptions for very fast learners who would only need like 200 hours)
The comp community is always happy to have newcomers, but people who dont know the game they want to play are counterproductive for the community, at least thats my own opinion. Some people are going to say now "but let's accept everyone because we're open to people of all kinds (and we need members)" - but isn't a COMP community there to get higher skilled games going?

bauer stop, gathers & comp is just like pubs.
herakles
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1 March 2017 - 07:33 EST
#17
This day when I 100% agree with Bauer TylerR1 TylerR2 REFO RMED
ryssk
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1 March 2017 - 08:20 EST
#18
I remember when i came to NS2, had like 1 hour in NS1, NS2 pubstomper 24/7, came to gather, decided to watch the gather for atleast 10 games, and listen to TS to understand what went wrong and what went right.. Just to try understand the difference between Pub and Comp.

Now when people come, they get rekt instantly.. like literally shredded a new butthole.. then cries over the forum, creates posts about how the game should be balanced *facepalm*

I do understand that there could be some training.. but hey come on.. first you need to put down your own time, try to atleast understand the basic mechanics and strats of the game. Dont except people do the work FOR you.

Problem is also, when people play the game right now, you dont have any clue about their skill.. So sometimes you expect somebody to defend an RT as a marine, and loose a 1v1 engagement.. And you keep on doing that for 10 times in a row.. well then clearly somethings wrong and you've pretty much fucked your commander and teammates..

That's why it's better with MM like CSGO and OW got, either you're placed with a boosted,smurf or a troll ... but atleast they know somewhat about the game...

In NS2 gather, it's like being placed a Global Elite together with a Wood 5, and next to that is a Rock 3 ranked player.. That's why the "invitational gather" was created but not used anymore! It was just too late..

Like Star is saying sometimes when playing gathers.. You've got to order a chemo appointment due to the cancer that's contagious!


Still after 10 season i cannot Lerk.. please help me for the love of god...
Hobbeson
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1 March 2017 - 11:57 EST
#19
ryssk says

Still after 10 season i cannot Lerk.. please help me for the love of god...


It's true, he really can't.
phone
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1 March 2017 - 13:54 EST
#20
http://www.ensl.org/topics/1565

go study buddy, lots of available rants and discussions

there's ltierally a whole forum section on ns2 TiPz

i learned to play this game at a high level(?) by dedicating hours to this game. i played ns2 like it was my job for a few weeks or months. if you thikn 1-2 hrs of gathers (which are laughably a waste of time for everyone, 15 mins to pick teams 15 mins to get on server) will accelerate your learning capacities you're sadly mistaken.

go warm up in a public games a few hhours before you play a gather (they start expectantly at the same time frame most days), go 20-1 as a marine and spawn camp and make clever rotations, or ambush marines in New and Cool Spots in these public, disorganized game so you can learn how to do it on a smaller scale with skilled opponents.

if you dont have the time to spend playing this game, youre not going to do well, and youre not going to have fun playing at a high level. sure i learned ns2 in less than 200 hrs, but i have approximately 5k+ hrs in ns1 competitive games and another 5k+ in public.

phone
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1 March 2017 - 14:02 EST
#21
: @@@@@@@@@@@@ - Today at 7:51 PM
i swear to god if it was one of the NEWCOMERS i'll have them ALL BEAT UP FOR IT

NateDogg
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1 March 2017 - 21:15 EST
#22
phonee says

if you dont have the time to spend playing this game, youre not going to do well, and youre not going to have fun playing at a high level. sure i learned ns2 in less than 200 hrs, but i have approximately 5k+ hrs in ns1 competitive games and another 5k+ in public.


Yikes. 10k+ hrs. 1 year has approximately 9k hours. So we're talkin years. Years of practice and study to get good at a video game. That's very daunting. And it does make me question my commitment to this hobby.

The other thing that makes me question my commitment is the riff raff. There are alot of nice people in this community. And there are alot of rude juveniles as well. Though, the same could be said of any community so I guess that's no excuse.

Thanks for the insight phonee!
Rammler
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2 March 2017 - 05:09 EST
#23
NateDogg says

Yikes. 10k+ hrs. 1 year has approximately 9k hours. So we're talkin years. Years of practice and study to get good at a video game. That's very daunting. And it does make me question my commitment to this hobby.


This is a comp game, not COD or battlefield. this game is made for SKILLED players and not for couch gamers. you can compare this game to every AAA game out there. what will u see?

ns2 has NO ingame bonuses.
no unfair dlc advantage.
no stupid abilities where u can call air strikes, helicopters or activate a nuke........

only skill counts.

so the only way to get ur killz is to git gudz.
Bicsum
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2 March 2017 - 05:10 EST
#24
You don't need thousands of hours to get into competitive.

You just need to focus on playing PCWs. After 10 days of playing PCWs, you should be fine to be play gathers. If you want to practice your mechanical skills, do 1vs1s.

The important thing to learn as marine is where to position yourself on the map and which engagements to take as an alien. Both of those things are not THAT hard to learn, but you will have a harder time learning it playing pub games, where mistakes are not punished as hard.

The open training night is a good opportunity to play against each other. However, I think it is not very helpful to have an experienced player spectate the match and tell you what you did wrong after the match.
It would be better, if you had experienced (field) commanders on both sides, who would coordinate where people need to go. Try to pick up the system behind it and then make those correct decisions on your own.
NateDogg
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2 March 2017 - 05:21 EST
#25
Bicsum says
You just need to focus on playing PCWs. After 10 days of playing PCWs, you should be fine to be play gathers. If you want to practice your mechanical skills, do 1vs1s.

Roger. That is my current focus, thanks.

@Rammler, I agree this game is nothing like COD or Battlefield which is probably why it interests me so.

@Home your explanation about server communities was very helpful, thank you.
Sardine
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2 March 2017 - 09:51 EST
#26
This game has a steep learning curve. Sure you can learn somewhat from other peoples advice and mistakes, but the best way to make progress (especially with mechanical skill) is to get your head down and put as many hours into the game as you can.
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