The NSL Competitive Mod - old thread

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22 September 2016 - 12:50 EDT
Home says
2) YES PLEASE. So from what I understand only skulk and gorge would have the new hitboxes then?

3) Also good change. Mines are too easy to para kill and being better able to decide how much res to spend on mines is just better because more control. But then make it able to carry 2 or 3 mines at once.

Why would you increase the time for it becoming active?


For mines: we don't want mines to be all over the place and part of every game necessarily. So that is why we were thinking 1 mine at a time is good but make it cheaper for the player so they can still get a sg at a decent time. Also the reason why we want to make sure the time is high before it becomes active is so players aren't placing a mine before they get crushed and getting easy skulk kills in a fight.
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22 September 2016 - 12:58 EDT
Isn't that the fun part.
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22 September 2016 - 13:44 EDT
Home says
Isn't that the fun part.


not really. I don't think mines are fun. I do understand that people want additional tech paths that are useful though.
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22 September 2016 - 15:13 EDT
Deck says
3) [...]cut research time in half, and increase the time the mine becomes active (so the time between when you place it and it works) to 5-8 seconds.


Why change research time, I seriously don't get the reason behind this. It's just some random thought that came up and you're seriously considering it, same goes for the activation time. There is absolutely no reason to change it. Just change the hp and number of mines and see how it plays out. Why would you nerf them even before anyone has ever used them at all. I assure you there is not going to be any problem with mines. Learn to avoid them and it'll all be fine................................................................................................................................................
http://i.imgur.com/hr1ud2u.png
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22 September 2016 - 17:39 EDT
BauerJankins says
Deck says
3) [...]cut research time in half, and increase the time the mine becomes active (so the time between when you place it and it works) to 5-8 seconds.


Why change research time, I seriously don't get the reason behind this. It's just some random thought that came up and you're seriously considering it, same goes for the activation time. There is absolutely no reason to change it. Just change the hp and number of mines and see how it plays out. Why would you nerf them even before anyone has ever used them at all. I assure you there is not going to be any problem with mines. Learn to avoid them and it'll all be fine................................................................................................................................................


^^

This.
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22 September 2016 - 20:21 EDT
kash agreeing with bauer? what kinda world is this xDDDDDDDD



anyways, my point for research time is that it was increase the inventive to upgrade mines. the timings of when mines comes out is CRUCIAL to the success of the mines. it wont be seen as a lost cause for commanders to upgrade mines, use them in the early game, which is a different tech choice of 20 tres (building an armory and upgrading mines).

something bauer told me in voice the other night (which i agreed with was) "Mines shouldn't be on the field when lifeforms are up) this means LERKS. lerk spike is insanely strong vs mines and at 30, even 50 hp they would die rather fast without any commitment from the aliens. lerks come up between 2:30-3mins, this leaves mines a 1.5 - 2 minute window for actually being useful

about the deployment time, i think it's a silly way to try a "Balance" the buffs you're giving to mines. what we have to understand is that this option is INEFFICIENT from a commanding point of view. if you're not getting a few skulk pick offs in the first 2 minutes of mines going out, you've essentially wasted 20 res. (@Starcreature, ive seen your tech choice on marines, and it goes a1/a2/w1 when you're feeling really greedy) what nobody is talking about is that, ARMOR2 is LITERALLY THE BEST, AND MOST IMPACTFUL MARINE UPGRADE IN THE GAME.

the fear of "marines putting mines @ their feet when they're about to be crushed" is silly, since if the marine has a GOOD POSITION, and is backing himself up with a mine (5pres cost) why sHOULDNT he be rewarded with killing 2 skulks (and possibly himself since when you stand on a mine you blow yourself up)
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23 September 2016 - 11:19 EDT
phonee says

the fear of "marines putting mines @ their feet when they're about to be crushed" is silly, since if the marine has a GOOD POSITION, and is backing himself up with a mine (5pres cost) why sHOULDNT he be rewarded with killing 2 skulks (and possibly himself since when you stand on a mine you blow yourself up)


Well by that logic, lets make xenocide a biomass 2 upgrade. Because if a skulk is able to make it to the marine(s), he should be rewarded with the kill(s) regardless of his ability to be accurate. /sarcasm
aaa
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23 September 2016 - 12:42 EDT
New players like me are having trouble shooting mines. Plz increase hitbox.

To compensate, give mines boneshield.
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23 September 2016 - 12:47 EDT
The mines probably don't need to be changed. Sure, we could change and test stuff to see if it makes for more interesting tech paths. Not really the point of this mod though. The point is to limit op things and have ns2 play better competitively.

Yes, you could make the argument that the proposed mine changes play better competitively, but that hasn't been proven. I would rather focus on bigger things that need to be right than guessing what could work better with something like mines. Also, it's additional changes that are different from vanilla.
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23 September 2016 - 15:37 EDT
Deck says
The mines probably don't need to be changed. Sure, we could change and test stuff to see if it makes for more interesting tech paths. Not really the point of this mod though. The point is to limit op things and have ns2 play better competitively.

Yes, you could make the argument that the proposed mine changes play better competitively, but that hasn't been proven. I would rather focus on bigger things that need to be right than guessing what could work better with something like mines. Also, it's additional changes that are different from vanilla.


man i had hope for you, why not do the change then revert it if star's paranoia comes to light?

you realize the BEST TIME TO MAKE CHANGES TO THIS GAME IS BETWEEN SEASONS, now let's think. if you do MINE changes and it is determined to bee too much fun a buff, we revert it for s10. if it turns out to be another intersting way to play the game then that'd probably bring back players. i hear there are only 2 NA teams, would be a sHAME IF more didnt join
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23 September 2016 - 15:38 EDT
fucking starcreature
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23 September 2016 - 16:42 EDT
Lowering research time I can see the benefit in, but increasing the activation time seems like a pointless change to me.

Changing the cost and the amount you get is probably a good idea tbh, as has been pointed out above, it would allow more control of Pres.
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23 September 2016 - 17:42 EDT
if mines stay as they arecan we just remove them so I don't accidentally click them ever
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23 September 2016 - 18:10 EDT
Let's not go crazy with the mine talk. The idea is noted and will be considered, but I don't think this falls under the main goals of the mod. I also think mines as they currently are still get kills. I also prefer less pve than more or keep the current pve.

In other news, let me know if the abilities being lost once hive goes down (putting you under required biomass) works well. Also let us know if the regen not activating during a fight is working well or not.
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24 September 2016 - 11:06 EDT
kmacg says
if mines stay as they arecan we just remove them so I don't accidentally click them ever


ya can we just edit over the button and jsut make it a smiley face so i remember to stay positive in the comm chair?

deck says
Let's not go crazy with the mine talk. The idea is noted and will be considered, but I don't think this falls under the main goals of the mod. I also think mines as they currently are still get kills. I also prefer less pve than more or keep the current pve.


actually, the POINT OF COMP MOD was it change the vanilla game so it would play better competitively. the fact that mines were REBALANCED AROUND 24 MAN SERVERS AND WOOZA PUBS (mine hp decreased to 30) makes changing mines a Fucking Priority.

so if anything at all, you actually HAVE To change the mine health. why would we leave the balancing of the game around public servers? the Actual Goal Of Comp Mod was to balance the game around 6v6 and competitive players (gorge bhop)
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24 September 2016 - 12:14 EDT
kmacg says
if mines stay as they arecan we just remove them so I don't accidentally click them ever


I understand your point. But thats the wrong way. The compmod should make the items usable and not just remove them. if mines are broken we have to tweak them to make them "great again".
the shotgun as only usable marine weapon is too onesided imo.
buff mines, buff flamers, buff grenades.
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24 September 2016 - 12:46 EDT
I will discuss the mines with the other admins. I would be more open to going back to how the mines were in season 9 than trying to balance them around new ideas. I do agree if you were going to try new things, this would be a decent time to do it. I'll see what people think.
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25 September 2016 - 04:24 EDT
Fix regen make them work in combat pls thx

So i dont fucking flash when i yolo with the new hitboxes

K thx bye
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11 October 2016 - 03:59 EDT
I just had a useful idea about the separate Gorgetunnel-ends:
(I came up with this while thinking how we will see the wrong end placed down at least 1 time in the lower div next season)

If only 1 Gorgetunnel-ends exits, u should be forced to place down the other one!
This could be done by either disabling the option to drop the same end again altogether until you dropped the other end, or by automatically replacing it with the "right" one.

Idk how easy/hard this would be to implement though.
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11 October 2016 - 08:43 EDT
caperp says
I just had a useful idea about the separate Gorgetunnel-ends:
(I came up with this while thinking how we will see the wrong end placed down at least 1 time in the lower div next season)

If only 1 Gorgetunnel-ends exits, u should be forced to place down the other one!
This could be done by either disabling the option to drop the same end again altogether until you dropped the other end, or by automatically replacing it with the "right" one.

Idk how easy/hard this would be to implement though.


The new comp mod handles gorge tunnels differently. I would think of it more as which tunnel end do you want to destroy and not about entrances and exits. The new way only really comes into play once you are ready to drop your 3rd tunnel end in the round. When you drop your 3rd tunnel end, you can choose to destroy the most recent tunnel end (holding crouch when you place the third tunnel) or destroy your first tunnel end (not crouching when you drop your 3rd tunnel).

Then you would be able to keep choosing which tunnel end to destroy using the same method if you kept dropping tunnels in the round. Holding crouch while placing the tunnel end gets rid of the most recent tunnel end, and not holding crouch gets rid of the tunnel end before your most recent one.
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11 October 2016 - 10:29 EDT
Awesome, seems like you kinda already implemented what i thought :)
One thing the old compmod did better though was distinguishing which end was which with the second one being green, now you have to keep track. No big deal though i guess, since its pretty much the same in vanilla.
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11 October 2016 - 11:26 EDT
the gorge tunnel thing is nice but seems a bit like a hodden mechanic unless explained somewhere (which is not here)
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11 October 2016 - 15:19 EDT
Mephilles says
the gorge tunnel thing is nice but seems a bit like a hodden mechanic unless explained somewhere (which is not here)


It is explained briefly in the mod when you have the gorge tunnel selected and about to be placed. It will take a little time to get use to it for comp and non comp players. The good thing is, it explains it in the mod so it should prompt someone to clarify. Also, if you don't hold crouch when you place the tunnel, the gorge tunnel would work how it does in vanilla so at least you can't do something like drop 2 entrances by mistake.
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11 October 2016 - 15:25 EDT
caperp says
Awesome, seems like you kinda already implemented what i thought :)
One thing the old compmod did better though was distinguishing which end was which with the second one being green, now you have to keep track. No big deal though i guess, since its pretty much the same in vanilla.


You bring up a good point. It would be nice if the tunnels were colored on the map and the mod told you which color you were about to destroy.
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11 October 2016 - 18:25 EDT
Mephilles says
the gorge tunnel thing is nice but seems a bit like a hodden mechanic unless explained somewhere (which is not here)

I disagree Meph, this is comp mod only, not vanilla. Hidden mechanics are no problem in comp as long as you can read it up in the mod discription or in this forum.
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12 October 2016 - 09:03 EDT
Deck says
It is explained briefly in the mod when you have the gorge tunnel selected and about to be placed. It will take a little time to get use to it for comp and non comp players. The good thing is, it explains it in the mod so it should prompt someone to clarify. Also, if you don't hold crouch when you place the tunnel, the gorge tunnel would work how it does in vanilla so at least you can't do something like drop 2 entrances by mistake.


Good point
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11 December 2016 - 01:42 EST
There was a recent update to comp mod that removed being able to see who the enemy teams commander is before the game starts.
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11 December 2016 - 08:30 EST
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11 December 2016 - 13:36 EST
Deck says
There was a recent update to comp mod that removed being able to see who the enemy teams commander is before the game starts.


That took the whole season near enough o.O

also, when is contaminate going to be nerfed? at the moment, if I get a 3rd hive up, I just rush the biomass and start spamming it because it is so difficult for the marines to deal with it guarantees the win.
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11 December 2016 - 14:44 EST
Kash says
Deck says
There was a recent update to comp mod that removed being able to see who the enemy teams commander is before the game starts.


That took the whole season near enough o.O

also, when is contaminate going to be nerfed? at the moment, if I get a 3rd hive up, I just rush the biomass and start spamming it because it is so difficult for the marines to deal with it guarantees the win.


There has been discussion on the contamination recently and I believe it shouldn't be changed. I like that 9 biomass is very strong. It also could be tough to break a marine turtle and aliens deserve to win if they get to biomass 9 in my opinion. We don't plan on making any changes to balance during the season, but changes may be made during off-season.
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