Gathers : Casual Gather

Hey Folks,

 

I'm sure you already noticed that we have deployed a new version of the gather system.

This new version come with a new set of rules and few modifications.

From now on, while gathering, there are two different format you can choose :

-The old classical one 6v6 like everyone already knows.

-The casual 7v7 designed for the newcomers and casual players who want to have a taste of what competitive gaming is.

 

Obviously, the atmosphere will be different in those two format. The goal of the "classic" gather is to have a place to practice much like a PCW. This means having players who want to try their hardest in order to win. These games will be more tense and stressful. This is not recommended for newcomers, and we may eventually set requirements to join them.

 

The second format is more friendly. It's designed to let new players have a good taste of what competitive gaming can be. Naturally, players will make mistakes in these kinds of games in order to become better. The goal here is to learn how to block lanes, how to trap lifeforms, and to test differents tactics to learn current meta. It's a training ground which will lead you to the next competitive steps.

 

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Now, on to the rules. The Admin team will be intolerant towards bad-behavior (please talk in respectful manner), so don't be a dick and everything will be fine. We'll enforce the 10min rule too, (this includes the time between rounds).

There will be no requirement to join the "casual" gather, for the "classic" you need to have a minimum amount of hours on HIVE to participate(we will set the value next week.) Theses requirements are subject to evolve in the future. And they will take effect in the next iteration.

Also, Gather Mods are now able to execute bans on their own with our website.

Additionally, microphone are now mandatory while gathering.

 

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We are also working on a new format “Invite Only”, you will get more information about this in the future.

Sephy on 03 April 16 12:20

Comments

2345

Blank ydy | nazi hunter izO

edit: Updated version of this proposal here.

I'm glad to hear progress is continuing on gather revamps, can I also propose:

* Rebrand "Casual Gather" as "Open Gather" and for now let it be 6v6 (can increase to 7v7 later as demand warrants when it's seeding reliably). Open Gather is open to anyone who follows the basic gather rules; it can and should be publicized as widely as possible to help it seed. Ensure the Open Gather is the default selection when a player loads the gather page.

* Rebrand "Classic Gather" as "League Gather". Please, DO NOT base the League Gather on Hive hours! Instead allow any number of div1 or div2 team members to join and up to four players who are (div 3 team member) OR (Hive score/minute > 9) OR (Hive skill > 2000). This encourages people to become involved in the league and also makes space for promising newcomers to try higher-division league-style play.

* Continue work on an Invite Gather system while the preceding changes go live as soon as humanly possible.

4 April 2016, 22:38

2345

Blank ydy | nazi hunter izO

Separately, regarding voice communication, it's enough to enforce just that players (1) listen to their team and (2) are responsive. Please don't make microphones mandatory, that's really not going to go well.

4 April 2016, 22:44

5841

Blank BauerJankins | nazi hunter izO

http://hive.naturalselection2.com/profile/289517

5 April 2016, 00:16

6797

Blank Starcetereus | S11 Forfeit Champs

"allow any number of div1 or div2 team members to join and up to four players who are (div 3 team member)" For a "league gather" I think it would be a horrible idea to treat div 3 competitive players as second-class citizens.

5 April 2016, 00:23

5841

Blank BauerJankins | nazi hunter izO

agreed with star on that one, any player on a team should be granted a spot in WHATEVER FIRST TYPE OF gathers@@@@

5 April 2016, 00:26

6797

Blank Starcetereus | S11 Forfeit Champs

Some div 3 teams have a few "subs" that they intend to never play unless absolutely necessary, that are bad enough to mess up league gathers. But if the admins crack down on that, then league gathers would be perfect. If league involvement determines what kind of gathers they can play in the future, there should be rules about having "subs" who are significantly worse than the rest of the team and will never play in matches except in times of extreme desperation.

5 April 2016, 00:34

5457

Blank Niitze | I'm disappointing

I think there could be multiple options instead of just hive hours. So the requirement could be like "800 hive hours OR 2500 elo OR member of div1/2 team". (Just example, dont get mad). The stats dont mean much by themselves since older players might barely have 100 hours recorded there, the elo system isnt perfect(to say the least) and of course not everyone plays in a team atm. Those stats still dont take into account old school players who might make comeback but they would be deadweight anyway ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) Also, nothing is a perfect system, not even invites.

5 April 2016, 00:38

2345

Blank ydy | nazi hunter izO

I want to argue against anything even mentioning hours. In part because Hive does not go all the way back I can find you as many examples as you'd like of players who either (1) would tend to get invites in an invite-style system but have only a few dozens of hours or (2) vice versa. Team membership, Hive skill, and score/minute all have notable imperfections, yes, but any use of hours would go beyond imperfection into being actively counterproductive.

Think of the League Gather as proposed above as a cheap and quickly realizable approximation of the hypothetical invite system. It has some warts but it achieves 80% of the value of an invite system at perhaps 5% of the cost. It could literally be put in place tomorrow.

5 April 2016, 00:57

5457

Blank Niitze | I'm disappointing

Every system has its flaws. Like you said, many people deserving invite have only few dozens of hours, but some of them also have none. In that case hive skill and score/minute are useless. Also, score/minute doesnt take into account commanders and its heavily affected by where the player plays. Therefore, "I want to argue against anything even mentioning score/minute."

5 April 2016, 01:18

2345

Blank ydy | nazi hunter izO

I can be more precise.

For Hive skill and score/minute "useless" is a gross overstatement. Both certainly are prone to false negatives, but largely not false positives and that makes it safe to OR them. Hive skill has a small number of false positives stemming from pubbers who use admin privileges to team switch and game the system. It should be resilient to that but currently it's not, just the way it is. And score/minute is a really great measure whose only major flaw currently is commanders, as you note. It should be ideally be tweaked to either assign commanders score in some way or to not count minutes spent in a hive/chair. Still, no false positives. If someone can rep 13 score/minute or whatever then as long as they follow the basic gather rules they'd tend to be welcome in many invite scenarios. And people who comm a lot are still able to tick off one of the other two boxes. No false positives and no problem.

Hive hours on hand will give both false negatives and substantial false positives. That's the relevant difference.

5 April 2016, 01:50

2026

Blank Syknik | Skill Issue

Just let the person be able to set up to which division they are willing to allowing. Then also allow them to invite players if they wish who are from lower divisions.

5 April 2016, 02:13

6764

Blank turtsmcgurts | tokyo drifters

^
I don't think there's any reason to overthink it.

5 April 2016, 02:17

5457

Blank Niitze | I'm disappointing

The "useless" was referring to a certain situation, hence the "in that case".
I dont really want to argue any further because the ideal system depends on what the admins want and how many different gathers they want. If they dont want "false positives" they should just make the invite system. If they want to add some limitations to normal gathers as well, they can add some requirements so that the people who have played the game just for 200 hours cant play.

My original point was that hive hours dont tell everything and I think that no system is perfect, but its better to let some of the worse players in than to leave some of the capable players out. Im sure the peoples in charge will make good decisions and they will make adjustments if they suck.

5 April 2016, 03:11

2104

Blank phone | Snoofed

Niitze says
Im sure the peoples in charge will make good decisions and they will make adjustments if they suck.


LoL

5 April 2016, 07:16

5841

Blank BauerJankins | nazi hunter izO

"Also, Gather Mods are now able to execute bans on their own with our website."

mst last played on 31 Mar 7.9 hrs last two weeks
cr4zy ??? less than 0 hrs last two weeks

KMACG FOR GATHERMOD

5 April 2016, 15:37

Noavatar

Blank ryssk | Ram Ranch

I would like to see active players who play Gather to be gather mods, and ofcourse they should have some sort of brain, so we dont get the BauerSyndrome all over again! :D @@@@@@@@@@@ KappaClaus

5 April 2016, 17:04

6925

Blank Home

Why the 7v7 thing? Make both 6v6.

Then maybe we could have a gather in which low skillers like me could play in.

5 April 2016, 17:07

Noavatar

Blank leso

I agree make both 6v6, theres already not enough people signin for casual dont make it harder to start a game plus its more unbalanced.

5 April 2016, 18:15

6797

Blank Starcetereus | S11 Forfeit Champs

MEGA FOR EU GATHER MOD. He will be a fair and fast-acting gather mod as long as he doesn't have to get his cat off the roof. Germans and Americans know best about segregating a certain population group. #makegathersgreatagain #buildawall #mega2016 #megadidnothingwrong

5 April 2016, 18:37

4952

Blank Robby

Oh wow.. someone actually listened to my idea about split gathers. May all your dreams come true.

Starcetereus says
Kablam

+1, Mega for mod and/or queen.

6 April 2016, 02:44

5841

Blank BauerJankins | nazi hunter izO

Robby i tried my best when i was a mod to make the admins consider your idea... but gathers had to die before aynthing would happen r.i.p :(

6 April 2016, 13:17

Noavatar

Blank rudyeckert | Diamond Gamers

No No No on any type of artibrary invitational system. TBH I think it should be up to the players wheather they would like to join casual or competitive gather. This community already has a bad habit of being very cliquey and excluding newcomers. We should do our best to make players feel welcome and help them improve their game.

9 April 2016, 01:44

6942

Blank Alt+F4 | For The Lolz

will give it a try

9 April 2016, 10:00

5445

Blank Kash | For The Lolz

@Alt explain Bauer then B)

9 April 2016, 10:17

Noavatar

Blank Kmacg | LMAO gotcha

rudy, the people who will play this already don't play regular gathers. If anything regular gathers will have MORE high skill people who will be more willing to help.

They'll get to play some higher skill games, which makes them less likely to rage, and more likely to help when they play lower skill. They won't get burned out, scream at rookies, and stop gathering.

10 April 2016, 19:29

6359

Blank infamous | 3Port no Obs

Not sure why some people keep thinking invitational gathers are a bad thing. Many players already do not play gathers because they are generally too low skilled to be fun for them. Having a separate, invite only gather would bring a lot of these players back. It wouldn't fracture the community by any means, if anything it might revitalize gathers.

10 April 2016, 19:35

6355

Blank Alite

But i like screaming at rookies :(

10 April 2016, 20:58

6015

Blank Tyr | BEAST INFECTION

Alite says
But i like screaming at rookies :(


You scream at yourself? :]

10 April 2016, 21:27

6200

Blank Ixian

Make a poll about what people want?

11 April 2016, 00:09

Noavatar

Blank ryssk | Ram Ranch

infamous says
Not sure why some people keep thinking invitational gathers are a bad thing. Many players already do not play gathers because they are generally too low skilled to be fun for them. Having a separate, invite only gather would bring a lot of these players back. It wouldn't fracture the community by any means, if anything it might revitalize gathers.


Because people would get butthurt for actually being bad : ( No offense #BauerJenkins :D

11 April 2016, 08:46

5841

Blank BauerJankins | nazi hunter izO

Jenkins

11 April 2016, 17:02

Noavatar

Blank Grissi | Goðar

Instead of being butthurt their mentality should be the other way around: ,,If I work on my play I can join them in their glorious adventure of high skilled ns2."

Personally I have no interest in normal gathers. In the old days we did regular in-house mixes that work pretty much as the same (Golden's invite only mixes is another good example). These invite only gathers exist in every popular competitive game. If you fail to make a good impression you won't get invited. Instead of complaining about it players should spent that energy to get on their level.

Bringing in invite only gathers would actually be healthy for the game as more experienced players will be playing the game more in-between pcw's and official matches.

11 April 2016, 17:17

Noavatar

Blank rudyeckert | Diamond Gamers

kmacg says
rudy, the people who will play this already don't play regular gathers. If anything regular gathers will have MORE high skill people who will be more willing to help.

They'll get to play some higher skill games, which makes them less likely to rage, and more likely to help when they play lower skill. They won't get burned out, scream at rookies, and stop gathering.


I hope your right kmac. I just know when I try and get new people to try gathers to go to the next level they are usually very timid to get started. I am scared that if they are not met with a welcoming community willing to help then they will just be turned off for good. I am afraid invitational will be a way to exclude rather than include.

14 April 2016, 21:10

6797

Blank Starcetereus | S11 Forfeit Champs

"I am afraid invitational will be a way to exclude rather than include" Ok would you rather have these new players meeting high skill people that just yell and bitch at them and get frustrated because they are not contributing as much to the team? Most high skill players do not, in fact, play gathers to be a babysitter for rookie players.

15 April 2016, 06:32

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